Yay
I wanted to say thanks to everyone for a good, non-argumentative game! It actually piqued Tammy's interest that we played with such little fuss the last couple times that I think she will join our game after all.
So thanks!
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I wanted to say thanks to everyone for a good, non-argumentative game! It actually piqued Tammy's interest that we played with such little fuss the last couple times that I think she will join our game after all.
So thanks!
Question for everyone: are random encounters a good or bad thing?
My thought has always been that I don't want the world to appear empty as you travel from one spot to another. At the same time, it might be easier to accomplish more adventuring per se by doing away with them, except in certain circumstances. It does allow some alternate storylines into the main arc (such as the Lich keep) and future potential adventures (many of the ruins you find). However, as far as I can tell, y'all are booked (or could be if you chose to) adventure wise for at least 10-12 sessions out, and if doing away with random encounters gets you to and through them quicker, is it worth getting rid of them?
There would be exceptions to this rule, such as travel through particular hostile territory, or in the case of the devil, who was going to hunt you until he found you. Additionally, if I have a 'neat' encounter I've thought up or one that might gain you some important object or plot hook, I may drop it in while you are travelling without any rolling.
Anyhow, I won't go into too many details on the options, as y'all probably realize the pros and cons as well as I do, so I'll just open it up to everyone. Random encountes: stay or go?
It seems we need some explanation about the 'personal deity' thing, so I thought I would let you know how it all works in my worlds.
There are two types of deities. The first are deities created by prayer...such as 'in the beginning some folks started saying the Prayer of Morning Light.' Some time after they did it, their combined efforts caused a spark to appear, the beginning of the goddess. As more people began to worship this way, and created temples and started saying other prayers, the goddess took form and eventually gained sentience. But not one such as ours, one that is both more powerful but less human. Eventually the goddess can communicate with some of her followers, such as prophets, and begin to answer prayers. From there, she decides that those who protect her church and those who enlarge it should have spells to help them do those things. However, it all comes back to how many people are praying that determines how much power and how many spells (or other miracles) she has to give out.
The other type of deity is a demigod. These are humans/elves/dragons or other creatures that eventually became so powerful and attract followers because of that power. Alfamane, if he chose, could become a demigod. They have their own inherent power, plus they get some power from that of their worshippers, but not as much as a typical god. This is the type of god who on occasion finds entertaining the company of mortals, and will more readily communcate with their followers. Their existence is not centered around keeping their congregations growing, and thus their power is more certain, sometimes greater than gods with few worshippers, but rarely more powerful than gods with many worshippers.
So how does this relate to Gaea, Sanguine and the goddess of Light and their relationships to the characters? First and most importantly, those people who gain power for their deities get preferential treatment. No one in the party has regularly and actively recruited, built churches, or done anything to gain congregations for their deities in ages. (Now, sidenote, Kyrie is doing a much better job of this than anyone ever has, but as of recently, and also because it is a benefit to him, not just to her) So your respective deities have very little reason to expend lots of extra effort on your behalf. Now, I am not saying there is anything wrong with what you have done, I am just saying that it is not directly tied to the increase of power for your deities and thus most of their attention is focused elsewhere.
Second, most of the adventures you have been on have only very rarely helped your deities directly, the Temple of Light being one, and Jerel and the cleansing of the land being another. Gaea gets some of her power from the earth and living things, and so cleansing it helped her in that way. The Temple of Light was a temple where the worship there wasn't getting to the goddess because of the evil there; when that was fixed, the goddess was very thankful. One of the two main events of Sanguine on the island was the destruction of her clerics and the desecration of her temple. The 2nd was the building of a temple, gathering of worshippers, and then the destruction of that congregation as well.
Now, it is true the party has these allegiences to their respective deities, but only rarely do they result in a direct benefit to the deity. Now, if a deity has a choice of helping a cleric at the Temple of Light recruit more followers and expand her temple or help Mikaela raid a tomb or plunder a caravan, she is going to help the Temple first and Mikaela 2nd. Now, Mikaela still receives help from his goddess in the form of spells and spell points, while the Temple received the 'personal attention', because Mikaela was only expending her power while the Temple was accruing it. Now, there is nothing wrong with what Mikaela was doing. However, providing personal contact when on a quest that has nothing directly to do with the deities interest is going to be less appealing to her than helping her directly increase her influence and power and help many of her people, instead of one.
Yes, there are some 'down-the-road' benefits to helping Mikaela, because he is a good role model and indirectly recruits the occasional follower. However, instead of working on a temple and a congregation, he worked on teaching people to fight. Again, there is nothing wrong with this and he still got his spells every day, a very potent blessing from the goddess, but again, her direct interaction here costs her more than she gains.
All this to say, for the first type of deities, to get them to interact with you, you really need to be in a position of providing them more power than you drain every day. As an example, assume 100 followers saying the Prayer of Morning's Light generates 1 divine point. And say one divine point generates enough energy to power 5 spell points. That means it takes 900 followers just to power one 9th level cleric for one day. Now, assume that 9th level cleric is out adventuring and doing little to directly recoup that cost, except when directly called by the goddess. Now assume there is another 9th level cleric, and he spends all day, every day, recruiting people, building shrines and otherwise doing what he can to increase the number of followers the goddess has. He only spends 45 spell points per day, but through his work he has recruited 500 spell points per day of divine energy.
Who do you think the goddess is most likely to answer direct requests from? Now, I know y'all, and some might say, 'well if she contacted me more, I'd help more.' However, it doesn't work that way. Those that go out of their way to increase their deities power, without expecting anything in return, are the ones more likely to have personal interaction with their deity. Those who only ask for things when they are about to die, or want resurrections or otherwise use their deities power up without providing a lot in return are the ones most likely to have less personal interaction with their deity.
Now, there is another route. Those clerics who directly safeguard the body of worshippers and the places of worship (such as the Temple mission), also have a better chance of personal interaction. Thus, if one of y'all would like to be a crusader for a deity, where one regularly goes on missions to protect the power of their deity, there is more of a chance for personal interaction. For example, this is what Brook and the druid coven basically does, and y'all are more than welcome to help them at any point.
So, back to Sanguine. If one wants Sanguine to provide one with powerful items or abilities,or personal interaction, one must provide her with more power than you drain. Being 9th level is not nearly enough and really has nothing to do with it. Sacrificing things is the source of her power, so if you don't do it, or recruit people who do, and often, you are not providing her with squat, and she has no reason to interact with you.
Anyhow, I hope that explanation helps everyone understand how the diety system works.
So anyway, yesterday gave a very little taste of my new campaign world. It may sound a little goofy, but I am liking the possibilities.
Basically the world exists within a giant sphere of some semi-solid crystal or some such. Light from whatever solar bodies exist basically flows through the entire thing, and so the entire sky is always light, barring eclipses from other celestial bodies.
There will be a number of layers, or 'shells' each containing one or more giant floating islands. Each island, or group of islands, will represent one or more countries, or for the smaller ones, citystates, or for the tiniest ones, manors. Most of them will have regular orbits around the core, though some may exist far outside the regular shells and be hard to spot or track. These may be the homes of brigands, pirates or other unsavory characters.
The population of the Sphere will be far smaller than any scale I've used, partially due to food and water constraints, partially due to ease of constructing a cosmology. I am thinking the entire sphere will be the population of ancient Europe around the time of Greece and Romes height, or maybe 5 to 10 million total (big guess there).
It will be completely different than anything I've done, and also far different than the standard D&D realm. I am eliminating the entire planar system, the entire deity system, and potentially even altering the magic system to more fit the picture of 'wizards' like Rasputin, Gandalf and Allanon, although with a more eastern flavor. It doesn't mean that those systems will be gone, but the Sphere's planar system might be constrained to a heaven-equivalent, a hell-equivalent and perhaps an ethereal plane equivalent. The deities will be the inhabitants of the highest 'layer,' perhaps dragons, perhaps powerful magicians, I'm not sure yet.
The feel of the campaign will be far more political than this last one, with players possibly starting in cool positions, such as gryphon riders or emissaries. There will be plenty of chance for adventure and fighting, but more in the George R.R. Martin tradition than in the Tolkein or Brooks style.
I am doing away (except for maybe new players) with the traditional character system and moving to a character point build system. I picture the fighters of this world more from the mold of the Tome of Battle: mystical people that combine their inherent arcane powers with their fighting styles. Instead of rangers and druids there will be Roc Archers or Gryphon Knights. Rogues will still be there but most of them will live at the Core of the world, scraping a living out from the refuse (and sometimes more interesting objects) dropped by the people of the higher layers. There will be many more mystics and sages and conjurers than there will be battle-mages. I am even thinking of 'outlawing' combat magic due to potential damage to the spheres or the islands, and allowing that type of magic to only be gained through finding ancient tomes or visiting sacred sites.
There will be no standard races, but there will be 8-10 unique races, such as winged folk, who can fly from one layer to another, but sacrifice a strong physical body to do it (they need to be light and agile). One layer will be populated by a mystic race of lizardfolk based on Aztec/Incan mythology.
All a player has to do to play what they find most interesting is to submit the culture, statistics, mores, and taboos of a race they create that will fit into this milieu, and a base country for them to live in. (I will be posting a worksheet I will be using from now on whenever I create a new country in any campaign to help with this.)
There will be hot-air baloons and gliders, cages on chains, islands made up of nothing more than a giant cities that have been carved over 5000 years. Dragons, flocks of birds in the 1000's that people hunt for food, saltwater created deserts. Bombing the enemy below you with giant hunks of rock; hiding from those above you doing the same. Mysteries and history.
This is not a world where secrecy is easy. People with telescopes can spy on their neighbors unless they completely shut themselves off from the world. And even if they do that, master diviners and seers can still find them out. And much more, as these are only the bare tips of the ideas I think could find a home in this world.
Anyhoo, that's what I'm thinking. Whoever doesn't like the idea let me know so I can see if this is something that interests people.
Thanks!
FYI - Tammy and I won't be going to Connecticut for Christmas, and I have all of Christmas week off (and the Friday before), so if we want to schedule a game as normal for the 30th or any other day that week I am up for it.
Also, if anyone is really bored and if we can get 4 or more people for a sealed minis tourney, I have a case of Blood Wars boosters we could use. (Also, Rodney, do you know if the person who wanted the other case still wants it?) Either that or maybe we can fit in a game of Risk or Talisman. Anybody else have Civ 4 for the PC?
Anyhoo, I'm pretty much up for anything.
A pair of aged gryphons lazed atop Gramm-Phaer tower, more silver in their feathers than gold. The sky was clear, shimmering white and silver, and nothing blocked the gaze of a full hemisphere's worth of light from warming their ancient forms. The tower was designed to recognize the majesty of the beasts, and so its design was more geometric than defensible. Thus, not even battlements blocked the vivid white light of the Sphere from infusing the creatures. Most people felt a surge of vertigo when looking out from the marble spire as there was nothing but open air in three directions as the island fell away below its base. The Core was barely visible two dozen miles below, as several layers of light cloud and mist blocked the sight.
Gardinel was currently up-west around a half-dozen miles away, a smaller tan and green island only 3 miles across at its widest. It was home to Le-Li-Ren, least of the dragonlords, a huge pale beast who had not flown in over 20 years. It was rumored light made him ill and that he lay in his underground palace, sleeping or dead. Ironically, in his absence the Ren had prospered, their island's properties providing great wealth which they readily shared among themselves and others. Water constantly condensed on both the underside and overside of the island, huge crystalline droplets that were easily harvested.
Gardinel's revolution was slightly faster than that of Elogryph, citystate of the Gryphonlords, and so passed over every dual-fortnight, temporarily blocking the brighter white uplight of the sphere and blessing the land with a cool, crisp rain. The gryphons and their riders would take flight and bask in the deluge until they glistened, the top of the Gryphon Tower only several hundred feet below the underside of the Rens' realm. Smallfolk and noble alike collected the Gardinel Rain in silver ewer's and used it for drinking, cooking or vinting, but never in a bath, as that was considered disrespectful of the gift.
The precipitation usually lasted for an hour or two until the island passed and the returning uplight warmed the city again. After, a gryphon rider would usually fly a cask or two of Serinev Pale, a rich cider and the main export of the Gryphonlords, to the Ren as thanks for their welcome gift.
A mere 50 yards below Elogryph, in a synchronous revolution, the folk of D'Avinel would be in a foul mood, their island's place ever denying them the brightest uplight and only once in a great while would they feel the cool mist of Gardinel's showers. They were a dour folk, easily offended and often full of bile. Still, the location of their small island and its lack of direct uplight made it home to a number of edible and medicinal tubers and mushrooms, which were as valuable as any items in the Cycle, the economics of the Seven Shells.
Occasionally a rebellious teenager from Elogryph would drop a rock or a pot from the Half-Bridge, a natural stone promontory that extended like a finger over the one bright town of D'Avinel, although such transgressions were punished severely. Wars, embargoes or sabotage among the inhabitants of the shells were often predicated by the immutable gravitic Law of Non-Contact. Only the continents and islands themselves were immune; once removed from contact, everything pulled toward the Core, a mad jumble of stone and metal cities built with the refuse of the higher shells and inhabited by brigands, treasure-hunters and other odd adventurers. One ventured out of shelter at the Core only at risk of life and limb, for a rotted apple falling 30 miles could kill just as easily as a stone.
Okay, Merry Christmas to my players! I've been reading some D&D forums and came across a suggestion regarding feats, and giving them out more often. I've been thinking for some time that with the literally hundreds (if not thousands) of feats presented in all the books, no more than a handful are ever picked, because no one wants to 'waste' feats just for role-playing or character development. I think that's a shame, because there are some very cool feats out there that could help flesh out characters.
So, assuming everyone is ok with it, every level where a character normally does not get a feat, he or she can take one 'social' feat. What I mean is, I don't want characters rolling through the combat skill trees and suddenly doing +4/+4 damage with multiple weapons. However, if there are diplomatic, crafting or trade feats and the like, feel free to take them. And I am warning Raistca now, this is for character development, not to find out which non-combat feats can be broken.
So yes, come Saturday y'all are welcome to take a few more feats. Jerel and Raistca, being the highest level, can have 5. Kyrie can have 4 (FYI-he still gets his regular bonus fighter feats), Orsen gets 3 and Michael can have 2. Then every level one normally wouldn't get one everyone can have one. I don't care which books they come from, I know PHB II has some cool ones apparently, as does the Tome of Battle. As always, if they are broken or unbalance the character, they will be nerfed (so just don't take broken feats!).
Have fun!
Not intended to be even near a final copy, just something to do some testing with. My thoughts are 33-point attribute buy, everything starts at 8. Everything 14 and above is 2 points. 60 character points per level. Eventually, that starting 60 points might be used to purchase a creature or type template (or part of one in the case of something like Thri-Kreen, which is CL + 2, or 120 character points at that rate).
Something I'll be working on also is flaws, but everyone is welcome to submit to the list. For example, if you take hobble you have a horrible limp, and your land speed as a human would only be 20" instead of 30" (a pretty significant flaw), but you would get 15-20 extra character points or so. FYI, weak flaws will only get a few extra character points, while extreme challenges (paraplegic) might get a level's worth. There will probably be a max of 2 flaws (one major, one minor) otherwise knowing people like Raistca will be casting fixes with all their extra char points.
Anyhow, here's the list so far, just the Player's Handbook stuff so far. If we come up with something workable from this, we can start with the other books.
The stench of the battle was overwhelming. Iron and sweat, offal and smoke all permeated Freedom Province City and it's surroundings. Vultures and ravens ate their fill as slowly the city returned to life. The townsfolk who had huddled in the underground caverns relit their hearths and forges and ovens, often speaking in whispering tones, as if their city was a tomb. They remained wary, many surprised the town had repelled the demon and his followers, but accepting of a second chance. Most renewed their efforts, replacing destroyed wooden buildings with ones of stone. Some looted bodies of picks and steel and studded armor and packed them away for future use. Others arrived at the barracks and volunteered, a 4-pointed patch over a golden blaze stitched on their arm.
The five remaining cavalry buried their dead and slipped out of the city with their heads low, even as the townsfolk who saw them cheered. The wizards' bunkhouse and school remained deserted and some spoke as if it was a curse that felled every one. Over half the militia lay dead, but those that remained carried a quiet dignity and their voices new weight in the city.
A simple shrine was erected in the grove for those who had fallen; three of the stones that had fallen on the city laid in a triangle, a fourth on top making a rough pyramid. It was festooned with green pine garland, draped with a single silver needle hanging on a colored ribbon for each who fell standing against the dark. Around it were placed personal items from dozens of families.
A lover's crown of maple leaves and dried roses left by a pregnant baker's widow. A stuffed hippogriff placed reverently by a tearful red-headed girl. A simple woolen wedding dress left by a weeping fletcher. A hundred other things, from simple flowers and wooden carvings, to a string of pearls and a delicate lantern.
They were gifts, every one. Gifts sewed or bought or traded for and never given. Gifts for a birthing day, or a wedding. Gifts hoped for, and gifts hidden. The stone shrine came to be known as the Gifting Tree, and Dalyne its tender. The 2nd day of Sagitaa became Gifting Day (also known as Freedom's Gift, or the Gift of Heroes, or just The Gift), and the ranger found a true and proper home for every item placed there. Those gifts which spoke with too mournful a voice would come to find a place in a small chapel also erected in the grove.
As a reminder, opposite the Gifting Tree was placed the Pile. Armor of leather and chain, helms of solid steel, picks and mauls and swords, stacks of gold coins and silver, all gifts for those who in the future would stand and fight. Even items not from the battle have found their way to the Pile, placed by craftsmen too old, or fearful, to fight. Around the pile were placed five flat marble stones, perhaps 2 feet square but with rounded corners, and on them were gifts for the heroes. No one knows the origin of all of the items, but many rumors abound.
For the newest of the heroes, a black contraption of unusual make provided contrast to the delicate milk white marble. It looked like a quiver of lacquered bone, a little over a foot long, with 8 silver points protruding from the bottom, while a handgrip etched with simple runes and a bone and wire trigger was indented into the top. A wood and leather box was open next to it, where 8 silvered spikes, perhaps 9 inches long, rested on red cloth.
For the frost dwarf, an odd-looking item rests on the stone slab, looking a little small in comparison. It is a carving of a yeti standing on a brass base, it's arms over it's head as if in a rage, standing about 8 inches tall. It is stark white, heavy and emits a soft blue glow. Written in dwarvish along the base are three phrases. The first is 'velden tame' , the second 'riedr hrid' and the third 'snjar krellr'. Four 10-lb cold-iron blocks also rest on the stone.
Raistca's stone rests a little out from the others, as if the craftsman misplaced it, and it carries a sickly red glow, as if it is at odds with the purity of the of the other stones. A redwood recurve bow sits upon a cherry stand and oozes a thick red light. Whorls and arcane patterns slide along the wood, and the string shimmers like mercury. A large pile of acorns rests slightly off the to the right of the stone.
Several children sit enthralled at almost all times around Jerel's Gift, though most don't understand why. It looks to be a heavy stone, perhaps 18 inches wide, and it shimmers with an internal light. Swirls of bronze streak its surface, and some swear they hear the sound of breaking waves if they stand near long enough. Steam fills a small portion of the grove as heat shimmers in waves from the object.
The air around the final item fairly crackles as it hovers four feet above the stone, spinning slowly. A silver-shafted, black headed mace, more than four feet long with two inset steel handles at the base. The head is cubed, with five faces clearly visible; one of the faces produces a soft glow, alternating azure and white, and a single rune flares with sparks of silver. It is called Gatekeeper, it's name etched in a 5-piece pictograph on the shaft. It is the greatest of the weapons the demon's army carried, though no one knows its purpose, and some fear what magics it might contain.
At the edge of each stone is a parchment, providing one-sixth ownership of a twelve-person sloop to be named later, commissioned by the Mobility Union and to be built by unnamed craftsmen.
Each night bunting and paper streamers and candles line every road and street, proclaiming at least for a little while that people dwell here, against all odds, burning softly against the black winter sky. And at least for a little while, that is enough.
I am trying to determine whether ability points (e.g. Str, Int) should be purchased from the same pool as all of the other skills, feats, spells, etc. For consistency sake, I think they should be, though I am not sure it is feasible. I have a feeling that trading in a couple of ability points could give a character a pretty big leap in power in more than a few other categories. However, there might be a way to compromise and be able to trade in a certain number of ability points for a set number of character points.
I've been doing some comparisons of the various abilities, and find that I think some are much more valuable than others. Some abilities (Wisdom) are almost worthless to non-cleric/druid characters, while others (Constitution) provide some small value to all characters regardless of class. It might be that there will be 3 levels of attributes, with Strength/Intelligence/Wisdom falling into the most costly category, Dexterity and Constitution into the 2nd, and Charisma/Perception/Comeliness into the least costly category. This is not set in stone yet, because although Charisma and Comeliness have a low perceived value in the two current campaigns, in a high-diplomacy campaign, they will become very valuable. I've started to do it more now, but it will eventually become automatic to roll a reaction check based on chr/com everytime someone encounters someone else.
Anyway, onto the boring analysis part. I know it is not feasible to quantify an exact value for every attribute, but I've tried to break down to a basic value per ability point, based on the most common benefits provided. For example, because I assigned BAB a character point value of 14 and a point of damage at 4 character points, every two points of strength at first level is worth at least 18 character points. Now, strength is an ability that now scales differently depending on whether one is a fighter or a mage (or cleric/rogue). This is because at 20th level, strength for a fighter gives a bonus to hit and damage on 4 attacks, while for a mage they only give a bonus for 2. I won't go into the exact details, but I came up with a minimum value for strength of 9 character points for all classes at first level, to a maximum of 32 character points for a fighter at level 20. This is compared to a maximum of 16 character point value for a mage at level 20.
Strength and Dexterity both end up scaling similarly as they both provide attack bonuses, though Dexterity provides more early value because of the contstant AC/Save bonus. I valued the Dex attack bonus at only 10 points because as I think Eric mentioned recently, ranged weapons typically do less damage than melee weapons. If it is determined that both provide similar value, then at 20th level Strength and Dex scale almost exactly the same because I valued an AC bonus of +1 at 15 character points, whereas a fighter with 4 attacks gets a total of +4 damage potential, which I valued at being worth 16 character points. Hmm. The more I think about it, Dex probably should be in the tier 1 category with Str/Int/Wis.
Now why do I value the other abilities (con, chr, com, per) lower? First, with this system, there is no reason to make any magic charisma based, as there won't really be any sorcerers. Casters will just be casters. If there is a reason to keep charisma as a caster-based attribute, then its value might go up slightly. However, take a look at Constitution. HP's are certainly valuable, but as of right now, one HP has a value of 1 character point. Thus, at first level, 2 points of constitution is only worth 3 character points (1hp + 1 point of saving throw (which I value at 2 CP). At 20th things are a little better, with each 2 points being worth 22 character points (20hp + 1 point of saving throw).
Wisdom is the most skewed of all the attributes, as far as I can tell. The maximum value for a cleric of 2 points of Wisdom (assuming it is between 10-19, as the value of Wisdom after 19 goes down drastically because the only need (other than the save bonus) for a 19 Wisdom is to cast 9th level spells) is 92 points, while the maximum value for a fighter is 2 points (the save bonus). Intelligence is not much better, weighing in at the highest value of any attribute at 118 per 2 points (again, assuming a Wizard is using it to open up spell levels), but the fighter gets 26 CP's per 2 points due to the bonus skill points and languages. (I am assuming going up in Int will get you new languages, although I think in the core rules that is only at 1st level).
I don't know what other rules I might mess up, but it might even be possible to do away with attributes entirely, and you could then purchase your AC bonus for dexterity separately from your +1 to ranged attacks and skill check bonuses and your attack bonus from strength separate from your damage bonus. Thoughts?
Good game Saturday! Definitely not something to do every session, but a huge battle every once in a while is guten! I will look at getting Heroes of Battle, WOTC's product that is supposed to help run large-scale battles, because as y'all go up and your little country survives, it will most likely be whacked at again.
I am glad Jerel is branching out with the cool spells, Stoneskin being one of the best Druid spells available. Just FYI, it is also one of the few Druid spells with a material component (Granite and 250gp worth of Diamond dust). So before we start seeing this cast 3 times per session, let's clarify component rules.
We've not used material components in general up until now for any class, though I have always intended to, at least with spells where there is a high GP value component (as some spells specify expensive gems, materials, etc). A simple way to handle I thought would be to assign a casting penalty of 5% per level for a spell where one does not have the material components, similar to the penalty a mage gets when trying to cast in armor. So for Stoneskin, a 5th level spell, there would be a 25% penalty when trying to cast it if one does not have the appropriate components.
Yes, I can hear the nerf cries already, but dealing with material components has been on my list of things to do for a long time, and for particularly powerful spells such as y'all will be casting now and in the future it becomes an important part of balancing the caster classes.
One of the purposes of the proposed Point-Buy system is to allow people to create truly unique characters with a range of abilities greater than what is currently allowed. An example Rodney had was a Rogue who took some of the standard skills (hide, move silently, listen, search), backstab, but then wanted to add some spells that would be useful, such as Alter Self at first level, Invisibility at 3rd, and Greater Image at 5th.
This is what I see as a good use of the point-buy system to add a touch of magic to create a good character. However, there are some challenges. My thought was to have 3 components to casting spells. First, a character would take the 'spell level' ability, which opens up spells in general of a particular level, such as when a wizard goes from 4th to 5th level and can then cast 3rd level spells. The 2nd component was to take particular spells, and the 3rd would be spell points.
Now, this is all well and good for a wizard to spend most of their points on spell-related things, but a rogue who wants a lot of different skills and feats as well would have a hard time fitting all that in just to be able to cast 1 spell per level. So for example, say it normally takes 20 points for a wizard to open and cast 1st level spells, 32 for 2nd level spells, and 44 for 3rd level spells. (these numbers are close to what I am looking at as I broke down the first couple of classes and includes choosing 9 total spells and having 18 spell points at 3rd level) Would it work to offer single use-per-day castings of spells at 5 points for 1st, 10 points for 2nd and 15 points for third?
The value per spell has to be low enough to allow someone to 'splash' it, but high enough to avoid potential abuse. Right now I am worried that too many people would choose a fighter route and then splash fireball, lightning bolt, and magic missile or otherwise using the system to create overpowered characters.
There are a couple possible options for preventing this type of abuse, but I am looking for any others ideas people come up with. First, the system can potentially just put damage-dealing spells in a separate category and say they cost more or require a user to have 'opened up' the whole spell level to use them, thus limiting them to individuals who have put a significant chunk of their character points into spellcasting. I think I might like this option better, because it still gives purpose to a spell-caster type class, which without some benefit would most likely fade away because people cast the same 10% of the total spell list even in our game and without some control would just take the cheapest route to the best spells. Alternately, and probably the hardest to do (time-wise), is recosting spells on an individual basis. This might be the best option also, but would definitely be more work.
This thought process is leading me to think that recosting of some spells might be necessary anyway. For example, cleric's get at 2nd level all of the spells that raise attributes by 4 points (Bull's Strength, Fox's Cunning, Eagle's Splendor, etc). However, at least in our game, the only one that ever gets used is Bull's Strength. So I am of two minds. Do we raise Bull's Strength to 3rd level in the new campaign, or lower all of the other's to 1st level? I am pretty sure even at third level people would still use Bull's Strength because it is a very potent buff. Would anyone use any of the others even as a 1st level spell? It might even be possible to test this in Nihilat by lowering the spell levels on some of Jerel's spells that never get used (as I think he is the only spellcaster left).
I am open to any other ideas as well. It might be in the new world, everyone has equal access to magic so no one really specializes. It might not be unusual to see the rock monster busting off a haste spell or having every third lizardman turning invisible prior to combat. Or it might be that only utilitarian magic is allowed to everyone, and have all damage spells outlawed and only taught by a licensed guild. Maybe spellcasters that have damage spells have to be sheriff's and any township could call on them to enforce the law. So there are definitely different ways of resolving this, I'm just not sure which is best yet! I guess I would like the Point-Buy system to be compatible with different worlds, so I am not sure using a campaign-specific fix would be the best solution.
This reminds me, I'll try to give everyone an overview a little later today of what I am thinking about for a framework for my new world to see if people find it interesting. I'm excited by the possibilities, politically and role-playing-wise, as well as for adventuring, so hope others will be as well! It definitely will not be your standard Tolkein-esque fantasy-fare!
One of the things I am thinking of doing away with in general, regardless of the point-buy system, is random rolling of characters. Dungeons and Dragons Online, as well as most of the books, are recommending or offering a system where instead of rolling, each character starts all attributes at 8, and then gives a certain number of points (26 I think is the standard...it would be higher for my game because we use 8 attributes instead of 6). All attributes cost 1 point to raise if the score is between 8 and 14, then 2 points if it is over 14 (and it might be higher after 16-17, but I'm not sure). That way there is a good range of abilities for most scores, but if the rogue really wants that high Dex, he has to pay dearly for it at the expense of some other attributes.
My main reason for moving to it is ease of making new characters, and guaranteeing that one character doesn't have an average of 16 for everything while another is stuck with 12's. It is also easy to use this to up-power or down-power characters according to the needs of the campaign. A heroic campaign might want an average stat of 15 while a commoner campaign similar to what Rodney is starting might want lower average scores.
Anyhoo, just another FYI!
In Raistca's last comment he had good questions about people overpowering their characters early, for example by picking higher level spells than a typical first level character would have or getting a high BAB quickly. It was one of my first concerns with any system of this type as well.
I think I might have even discussed a solution with Rodney when I first mentioned this. Every ability would have what I am calling a 'Natural Level', which is really just the equivalent level a character would receive a particular spell or ability in standard D&D. For example, the Natural Level of Base Attack Bonus is 1. Meaning, if a character takes a +1 BAB at first level, it will have a standard cost, for example 15 character points. A character could take a +2 BAB to get a more powerful (in that area) new character, but the 2nd +1 BAB would cost 30 points. That way, a character isn't excluded from doing that, however it means a character has to give up something else to fight above his Natural Level.
The same would apply to spells. For example, if it normally costs 20 CP's (character points, it will be easier to abbreviate!) to open up the 2nd level spell list, if a character wanted to do it at 1st level it would cost 40 CP's. You mention bypassing the lower level spells, and in this case that is certainly viable (assuming there is a per-spell cost as well instead of just a per-spell level cost), however it is possible it will be necessary for there to be pre-requisites to taking 3rd level spells. For example, a player might be required to have 3 spells from each spell level lower than a new spell level before they can get it.
As for doing away with experience points and how that will effect 'levels', I would guess that if each level in standard D&D ends up being 50 points in the new system, you would simply divide your CP's by 50 to get your Natural Level and you will know how much everything costs.
Anyhow, thanks for the input, these are definitely the things I want to hear as I try to figure this out!